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Post by Avinalaff on Dec 23, 2015 14:57:30 GMT
I disagree that we were playing ugly football under Moyes, and that seems to be a typecast that is very undeserved and totally inaccurate. In Moyes' final few years our football was very good, and let's not forget that he started with a very dire squad, and with no money, had to build a squad that would go on to challenge for European places. Martinez on the other hand inherited a quite excellent squad thanks to Moyes, and spent £28m on a striker, which such funding was unheard of under Moyes' reign, not to mention a list of transfers which have been very hit or miss. If Moyes' best team played Martinez' best team, I would put my money on Moyes' team winning every time. Are we really underachieving, or is it down to the fact that we hail our players as superstars that much that we start to believe our own hype? Exactly what Ross Barkley does that gets such praise I don't know, as he frustrates me most of the time, and Deulofeu has had some success with assists, but is fairly predictable for defenders, and cries like a baby everytime things don't go to plan. Stones is making mistake after mistake, as is Funes Mori, yet our luvfest bandwagon chooses to ignore any negatives, as that appears to be the Everton way. I don't think we are underachieving at all, instead I feel that we are being found out, that we are clearly NOT as good as we think. As for Martinez? Get shut on the first bus back to the Championship. Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps 'ugly football' was a bit harsh on Moyes, it was certainly 'effective' if not always thrilling. I've exciting memories of being lifted out of my seat by performances under Martinez, e.g. Newcastle and Arsenal at home in his first season, and me and pundits agree that his brand of football this year has also been exciting. But effective? No, not yet. And that has to change. As for Barkley, I think he's one of the best footballers in his generation, as is Stones, but they're both young and kids make mistakes. The key is learning from them. Give me a young learning side any day over an older, wiser, but side limited in its ability. I think it's amusing reading back at how we react the day after a match and how we feel once we've calmed down ha ha.
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Post by rosscrombie on Dec 23, 2015 14:58:42 GMT
rosscrombie at what point would you consider cutting your losses with Roberto? I think that point comes if the chosen tactics and team are quite clearly not delivering progress. I believe we are progressing, but accept not everyone agrees with me. My frustration, along with EVERYBODY ELSE'S, is that the current team and tactics are progressing and doing enough to win games at a canter, and we're not delivering the results the performances deserve. For me, I think we should reduce some of the "thrilling" to become merely "exciting", or maybe even just "OK", but then win more games!!
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sky
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Post by sky on Dec 23, 2015 15:32:27 GMT
rosscrombie at what point would you consider cutting your losses with Roberto? I think that point comes if the chosen tactics and team are quite clearly not delivering progress. I believe we are progressing, but accept not everyone agrees with me. My frustration, along with EVERYBODY ELSE'S, is that the current team and tactics are progressing and doing enough to win games at a canter, and we're not delivering the results the performances deserve. For me, I think we should reduce some of the "thrilling" to become merely "exciting", or maybe even just "OK", but then win more games!! How is a team that secured regular top 5, 6, 7 finishes under David Moyes with a fraction of the talent we have now progressing given that we finished poorly last season and are in a similar position this season? Shouldn't the fact Martinez has spent a lot of money have moved us up the table?
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sky
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Post by sky on Dec 23, 2015 15:33:31 GMT
Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps 'ugly football' was a bit harsh on Moyes, it was certainly 'effective' if not always thrilling. I've exciting memories of being lifted out of my seat by performances under Martinez, e.g. Newcastle and Arsenal at home in his first season, and me and pundits agree that his brand of football this year has also been exciting. But effective? No, not yet. And that has to change. As for Barkley, I think he's one of the best footballers in his generation, as is Stones, but they're both young and kids make mistakes. The key is learning from them. Give me a young learning side any day over an older, wiser, but side limited in its ability. I think it's amusing reading back at how we react the day after a match and how we feel once we've calmed down ha ha. I can't print my post match reactions lol.
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Post by Koeman's Clogs on Dec 24, 2015 21:19:03 GMT
I disagree that we were playing ugly football under Moyes, and that seems to be a typecast that is very undeserved and totally inaccurate. In Moyes' final few years our football was very good, and let's not forget that he started with a very dire squad, and with no money, had to build a squad that would go on to challenge for European places. Martinez on the other hand inherited a quite excellent squad thanks to Moyes, and spent £28m on a striker, which such funding was unheard of under Moyes' reign, not to mention a list of transfers which have been very hit or miss. If Moyes' best team played Martinez' best team, I would put my money on Moyes' team winning every time. Are we really underachieving, or is it down to the fact that we hail our players as superstars that much that we start to believe our own hype? Exactly what Ross Barkley does that gets such praise I don't know, as he frustrates me most of the time, and Deulofeu has had some success with assists, but is fairly predictable for defenders, and cries like a baby everytime things don't go to plan. Stones is making mistake after mistake, as is Funes Mori, yet our luvfest bandwagon chooses to ignore any negatives, as that appears to be the Everton way. I don't think we are underachieving at all, instead I feel that we are being found out, that we are clearly NOT as good as we think. As for Martinez? Get shut on the first bus back to the Championship. Think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps 'ugly football' was a bit harsh on Moyes, it was certainly 'effective' if not always thrilling. I've exciting memories of being lifted out of my seat by performances under Martinez, e.g. Newcastle and Arsenal at home in his first season, and me and pundits agree that his brand of football this year has also been exciting. But effective? No, not yet. And that has to change. As for Barkley, I think he's one of the best footballers in his generation, as is Stones, but they're both young and kids make mistakes. The key is learning from them. Give me a young learning side any day over an older, wiser, but side limited in its ability. Very harsh if you don't mind me saying Ross. Our current football is not as good as people think. Any team can pass it around and we're not the only ones who play from the back as most teams in the Premier League do this now. Football is about defending also and picking the best team. If you compasre Barkley to Rooney there is a world of difference. The players shouldn't be excused because they are learning. In the first team of a club with Everton's history, all players should be ready. The reserves is for learning. The first team is for getting the job done, and there's no room for passengers at this level.
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