I read this on another site so thought I'd share it.
He is meeting with people who run the Wigan fan sites - Wiganer, Cockney Latic, The Northern Soul - I believe. And he gives an incredibly candid interview as you'd expect. Perhaps he knew he could 'get away with it' at Wigan if you know what I mean, without all the added attention to such conferences. It would be absolutely fantastic should he award Grand Old Team or any other fansites such a privelige.
Good afternoon Roberto, how are you?
We all the same, love for the Latics. I feel very good, very excited because I feel that we are at this present time we are at the strongest moment of the season. At the earl of the season we have twelve players and we are fortunate we never had real injuries and keep healthy squad.
We now have James McCarthy and Victor Moses as the best two young players in the Premiership and we are one click away from becoming the side that we’ve been showing in little spells. Staying in the Premiership and we can kick on because we have a very good team.
How is life in the Premiership, is it more pressured than that of the Championship?
If I am honest the pressure that you put yourself under with the daily work, sometimes it is easier in the Premier league as you have the facilities whilst others it is difficult because for example Spurs when we lose 9-1, it is in the press and the media. I was in work every day, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.
On Sunday they had gone through it, on Monday they were a little better then on Tuesday it came out on Sky again and ten on Wednesday they were upset and Thursday they were on the floor destroyed.
Playing against Sunderland thinking we are going to lose and then on Friday they were a little better picking themselves up and we won 1-0. We were so up and down that week it was very volatile. That is what the premiership brings you. Everything is so much on the public domain.
The same way you get a great week like the one with Chelsea and we think we are too good for these. But the mental side is very different. Every other angle is covered.
My main problem has been this season that I relied upon players for Wigan Athletic that are big. And they have been a massive failure. Olivier kapo, Daniel De ridder, and I shouldn’t say it but Jason Koumas, big, big players.
But in a way we just feel that everyone needs a chance a fresh chance.
Does it ever play on your mind that you didn’t play at this level when you are dealing with these players?
No, I always felt that playing in the old third division for a technical player was more difficult than playing in the Premiership!
I think my biggest strength as a manager is to read the game tactically. In that respect you don’t need the respect. You get that from how you organise them and get them to play on the pitch. How you organise them and get them to show their quality on the pitch.
It is not about whether you played or not. The best players don’t normally make good managers. There is one exception, Johan Cryuff. All the other top, top players not good manager.
They think it is so easy for them because they are so talented then why can you not score from this position, I used to put it top corner, I used to score from there all the time!
That is the key, the best managers go to detail and get the best from average players. For example Rafa Benitez the better the player the bigger the struggle for him because he wants hard working players who4-4-2 , 4-2-3-1 or what ever formation he plays they are doing the job. He doesn’t like these Gerrard a who can do so many other things and leave holes that have him exposed.
But in that respect they always Johan Cryuff is the exception because he was a genius on the pitch and has been able to be a genius manager.
As an aside from that, in world football, which managers do to you aspire to?
You get many aspects from many, many managers. You get good bits and bad bits and you learn from the bad experiences of managers you have. You learn more of how not to treat players. You look at a successful team or not and you need the dynamics of a team. For me the biggest manager in this respect was Arrigo Sacchi and his Milan side. The first time he came in there was a lot of foreigners. For example, the Dutch and there could have been a clique there but he turned it into a way that it was a big, big strength.
So obviously you have Arrigo Sacchi that from a technical point of view was not so good then from a tactical point of view Johan Cryuff is the best in the world by a mile. His teams are so flexible, the way they can play to stop the opposition and also hurt people them selves with possession to out play teams.
Then you have a manager like John Toshack who doesn’t get the credit for what he did in Spain. What he did with Real Soceided with a group of young players was exceptional. The way they played with the sitting midfielder and then what he did with Swansea in England from the fourth division to the top.
I remember they beat Leeds 5-0 and went top of the old division. When people talk about John Toshack here they don’t understand the level of success he has had in Spain. He was the first manager to manage real Madrid twice and to get that job twice you have to be something special.
If you get Arrigo Sacchi, Johan Cryuff, Macho Mariano (the Columbian) and John Toshack and put them all together, then … (you have Roberto Martinez).
I don’t know if you watched the England international last night Roberto? There was pride from me seeing Leighton Baines in a full England shirt. Leighton was the last player we brought through the junior ranks some years ago, is this an area where we perhaps fall down as a club.
Yes, I watched the under 21’s online, and watched England later. In terms of youth development, I think it is a fault in the British game and we need to improve that at Wigan Athletic. It is not a coincidence that Leighton Baines is the last one, the only one to come through.
We don’t give enough structure, not just at Wigan Athletic, but in the British game. I am looking at Manchester United, Liverpool, all the top clubs and they have the same problems. Probably Liverpool is the only one that is trying to do something different.
We are spending so much money on the youngsters until they are eighteen. I think every academy year costs you £1 million. You get them at eighteen and we need to make a decision on who is going to be a professional, at eighteen!
Then it is so easy that they think, ‘I am a professional’ now I can act like Rodallega or Titus Bramble, when really, at eighteen, we should put them in a position at eighteen, through to twenty-one where they really need to earn professional status.
And you earn that with a lifestyle, in training, and we need to give them a good tactical and technical education and then after that four year period you have a player that is ready for the first team.
That would require a culture change throughout the British game, and how do you go about that?
With time, we have some players now who are going to be fantastic players for this club. I want to get to the position where every pre-season there are one, maybe two that are ready to play in the first team.
If we get that structure, then we will have one player ready for the first team every year. This should come with more attention on that age group from eighteen to twenty-two and not making decisions at eighteen or nineteen.
Sometimes you get late developers and it makes me laugh sometimes when people talk about systems. We should help the players know how to play in different formations, a 4-4-2, a 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, 3-5-2, the players should be able to switch like that, click, click, click.
Unfortunately, we could do a test and get all the youngsters and ask them to change the system and they don’t know what to do, all they know is straight lines and 4-4-2. That is a fault in our football culture.
So I take it that you dislike the 4-4-2?
What is the difference between systems, you tell me? People talk about the systems and how they are not working. It is the players that make the systems work, so depending on what players you have, you can then make a system strong.
Four, four, two in the easiest system to play against because you have two banks of four. When you get people in between, it is very difficult to deal with. And then to hurt the opposition, having two strikers against four defenders, you are not going to get a numerical advantage.
How you do that is to try and work out one versus one situations. When you can pass the ball quickly and perhaps a switch of play to get Charles N’Zogbia one versus one with his full back, we are going to score, we are going to get something out of it.
If you can get Hugo Rodallega or Victor Moses, we are going to score, we are going to get something out of it.
People speak about having strikers, and yesterday was funny. I watched the England under 21’s and they ended up with five strikers and this was the easiest moment for Greece.
Because although they had five strikers, if they don’t have the ball they are not going to hurt you! So then all of a sudden, they had Lee Cattermole and Jack Rodwell, and Greece stopped those two and the five strikers couldn’t get the ball. So the system is important to try and get the best out of your players.
In terms of the Latics, you have only had one full transfer window to buy players. Are you trying to play a system that is different to what these players have played before, and possibly trying to put square pegs in round holes? Do you ever just think that for this season we will try and consolidate and build for next year?
In our squad we have all different players from all different regimes and they play in the normal positions. There are some players that never change positions. For example if you are playing a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1, the players in defence are the same. They will only change if we change to three at the back.
All the players that we have from last year, they are defenders really, and my goalkeeper. Everyone else is playing in a new position and they are all capable of playing in those positions.
It is not the new system that the players are being asked to do something completely different. It is the opposite, we are trying to get the best out of players. Like in the past, if you have a Heskey, and then you have another, you can play in a front two because those two will score goals.
The way we are, if you are relying on Hugo Rodallega’s physicality to hurt the defenders, that is going to be difficult and so for us we play with a front three. When we have been at our best, we have been playing with three strikers. Jason Scotland, Hugo Rodallega and Charles N’Zogbia who is like striker when he gets in those positions.
You have three versus four really and although people think 4-4-2 is better, this way we have 4-3-3 which gives us bigger options, especially when you get those quality players in the wide areas with the ball. That is getting the best out of our players.
Marcelo Moreno is a completely different player and you will see he is an all rounder. He works hard he is good in the air, he holds the ball well and he has an amazing strike with both feet. We need to get him in good positions. If we get him to feel himself here, like he was in Brazil, then we have a great player.
He has a great feeling with Hugo. From the first day they have clicked, and I wanted to get them playing together. You will see playing at home that he will be a great addition.
I have seen him playing with Cruzeiro back in Brazil and his timing of his runs is always the right one, and he was very confident. Then he went to Shakhar in Ukraine, and he was never himself. He went to Werder Breman and he wasn’t himself. If we can make him feel at home here then he will be very good.
Shaktar paid €9 million for him, so they are asking at least €5 million. Given our budget, if we are going to spend big, we need to spend it on someone who we know is not going to be a gamble.
So if we are doing this with a player that has been with us and worked with us, then we know this is not really a gamble at all.
Now we have James McCarthy, Victor Moses, Hugo Rodallega, Marcelo Moreno, Jordi Gomez, Hendry Thomas, Momo Diame, you have the front positions and we are as good as anyone.
James McCarthy looks as though he is going to be a very good player. We noticed how you kept him away from the first team for a little while.
Yes, six months it took him. Sometimes, we sign a player, for example, Victor Moses, and we sign him and put him in the team straight away. This puts him under massive pressure and then he feels as if the world is against him and I need to perform. Instead of just saying, okay, you are here, lets see what you can do.
And slowly, you feel that he is getting frustrated, and he really wants to play here, and he is worrying about what I need to do to play here, rather than what do I need to do to score a goal. It is a completely different mind set.
At the moment, Victor, when he came on against Birmingham, he looked a threat. We couldn’t give him the ball quick enough. Every time he got on the ball he looked like a player.
And then James McCarthy, that boy, he can play out wide, in the middle, he is the only player at nineteen years old that I can change to three different positions during a game. You can normally only do that with experienced players.
He came on against Brazil the other day, and nothing phases him. James is a true ambassador and you don’t get so many players like him. He turned down Liverpool three years ago because he felt that was a club that he wasn’t going to play and he is so clued in.
He seems to have his own strength and loyalty, what with the Ireland and Scotland situation. I guess that could bode well for us in the future?
If he does not feel that any potential move is not the right time for Wigan Athletic then he won’t do it for himself, that is clear. Craig Levein (Scotland manager) came down to see him training and Gary Caldwell was here. Now Gary is another one, what a leader.
And Levein got him in a room, on his own, one to one, just to persuade him. He came out of the room, and he said, ‘I can’t believe it, I have no chance of persuading him.’ James is just nineteen, and he is with the manager of Scotland in the room, and he held firm that his feelings said he need to play for Republic of Ireland.
Our past track record of keeping hold of players like James McCarthy has been poor. Maynor Figueroa has recently changed that way of thinking, is this something the club are hoping for more long term?
If I am honest with you, every player we are going to lose is going to be at our price, and we will replace him with two or three. With all due respects, before at the club they were reliant upon agents. Agents would say look I have this player, you should check him out, you cannot work like that and you need to be ahead.
If an agent is bringing a player to Wigan Athletic, it is because he has failed with Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham… and then the last one, I am going to Wigan.
Now we have a better recruitment system. Not as good as I want it, but we have got at least one hundred players we are looking at. Before you see players on Sky like Mido and Zaki who go through all the team at the bottom of the league.
If you buy these players, you will just become an average football team. Marcelo Moreno for example, nobody had even mentioned him. These are the players we need to get if we are going to get ahead.
We got Spain, Scotland, Holland, Portugal etc… these are big markets for us, and of course, South America. I think we need an Argentinean, Paraguayan or Uruguayan at the back.
Lets say if someone comes in and offers silly money for Charles N’Zogbia, and we have to sell him, I guarantee you we will bring three players in to improve the football club.
Not like before where we lose a 24 year old and we bring in a 30 year old such as Marlon Kings and people like that. We need to be prepared to lose players, but if we lose a player we need to go to a different level.
Do you think you are maybe a few transfer windows away from having the team that you want?
Yes, two. I would say two. At the moment we are missing a real playmaker. Someone who can play in front of the back four, get the ball and dictate the play a little bit.
We have to be top eight. In two years I hope we are in the top eight. Not like a top eight, that is over night, rather a group of players and a way to play. If we lose a player then we will bring in another two or three and we will always look to be in the top ten.
At the moment, the next eleven games for us are massive. It is vital that we stay in the Premiership.
Will you be treating all those games the same or will you have any special tactics for our games with the relegation rivals?
There are certain games. For example, Burnley, with Owen Coyle they play 4-3-3 now they play 4-4-2. Games against teams like Burnley, Portsmouth, Hull, we will try to play a little bit more on the front foot, trying to play with two or three strikers, trying to put pressure on them.
I think with the other teams, when we are playing Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, we will play in a different way but every game is a unique opportunity to get points.
We sat down with the players and we target all the games. We said well where are we going to get the points and the reality is that everyone said we are capable of losing against anyone, but also of winning against anyone.
That is a good way to look at it because you don’t limit yourself. If we perform the way we can, then we can beat anyone and if we don’t then we can lose against anyone.
They are not in such a confident mood right now. We are one result away from a click. At the moment the last two game shave been real uphill battles.
Although it is not an excuse because you need to overcome it, but the decisions [of referees] have been difficult because if you go 1-0 down you have to overcome that and score two goals.
We do seem to struggle when we are 1-0 down?
Can you tell me in the last two years how many time we have overcome a 1-0 defeat? During a game, and with all due respect to all the other managers, we were more trying to keep a clean sheet. We would look to be really solid and then hit the other teams.
When the team would go 1-0 down the game plan is then gone and there would be two or three subs and we would go for the game. Over the last two years we have never overcome a 1-0 down in the Premiership.
Is that a problem in the league that teams now get 1-0 ahead and are so adept at stopping the other team from playing?
I think Birmingham is a clear example of this. They get 1-0 ahead and then it is just the way they work to keep the clean sheet. But you look at Birmingham through what they have achieved this season through working and working and chasing that dream.
Birmingham with the same team next season will get relegated.
Birmingham remind me so much of when we first came into the Premierleague. The work ethic is so much like we were.
In a way, when I speak with managers after the game they say that they were very worried about playing Wigan Athletic. They don’t know how to play against us. The way we are we have some real talented players that get in between lines and re hard to stop.
The problem is that as a team we haven’t been mentally strong enough to be consistent and in every game you don’t see the best Wigan Athletic. Some games it has taken us twenty minutes just to be into the game and you cannot afford to do that.
You have mentioned it yourself, our back four is relatively young and doesn’t have a great deal of Premiership experience. Do you think that mental strength will come with time?
I think it is a bit of both. Gary Caldwell has been big on that. For the first time on Saturday he came to me and asked if the team could do the huddle before the game. Small details like that get the team together, get the team focussed and get that belief. I don’t think we had that.
Titus now is growing into a leader. He is in that transitional time where he is becoming from a young man to an important man. He is at the right age and now he needs to be a leader. You have players like Titus who I want to be leaders and at the moment they haven’t been leaders before.
And then you have the youngsters. I don’t mind, I think that having the energy and the youth that we have is going to help us more than the lack of experience.
I think Chris Kirkland is in the best moment of his career, and obviously Gary Caldwell and Titus Bramble. Then there is Maynor Figueroa who is going to play in the World Cup, as well as Hendry Thomas.
Hugo Rodallega is another player who everyone speaks about with great admiration. These are people who have a great presence about themselves. We need a couple of good results to get the good belief within the group.
Sometimes this youth is better than any sort of experience. For example before we played Chelsea I told them that we are going to win today. A youngster like James McCarthy will look at you and say ‘Yes, we are going to win today.’
And a Mario Melchiot will say ‘Yeah, of course we are! I have been there seven times before and we have never beaten them so I don’t think we are going to beat them.’
Sometimes you need to use that naivety.
Speaking of youth, are there any signs of a younger goalkeeper? My reason being are that Mike Pollitt must be hitting forty now?
Lee Nicholls at the club is the first player to sign professional terms with the club at the age of sixteen, whilst Leighton Baines was seventeen. We are trying to put a lot of emphasis on the current group of young players we have at the club.
In terms of the goalkeeper, we had Dea who we nearly signed from Atletico Madrid on the last day of the transfer window in August. The boy was ready to come and he was a bit frustrated. He was someone we had followed in the B team of Atletico Madrid.
The last day, their chairman said ‘no, it is not going to happen.’ Now he is number one goalkeeper for Atletico Madrid, playing in the Champions League and it came out that Manchester United want him.
We have our eye on very young and talented players. Like Marco Ruben for example. We were very, very close, but at the end we couldn’t do it, but now the other week he played for Villarreal against Real Madrid.
We need to be brave, to identify young talented players. Until now we would get someone of thirty with a big name and a big reputation and the manager is not putting their name on the line. I don’t work like that.
I prefer to put my name on the line and then get the best years of a player, rather than the worst years of a player. It is the happy balance. We need to get people like Gary Caldwell who is twenty-seven years old and has been the captain of Celtic and is in a great moment of his career. The best years of his career are for Wigan Athletic.
It is this balance that will allow us to aim for a top eight finish. Otherwise we will always be finishing seventeenth, sixteenth, fifteenth, or if we have a lucky year where everything goes your way and you get five or six wins, you finish eleventh. But there is no real substance as to how you have done that, and that is where the work is.
Roberto, you mentioned before that you feel we are lacking this play-maker in the middle of the field. Is that the reason you bought Jordi Gomez, and has he been a bit of a disappointment in that role?
We haven’t seen the best of Jordi yet, but I wouldn’t say he is a playmaker in terms of the one that allows the transition from the back four.
We work a lot trying to get the ball out from the back, and be patient from the back, dislodging the opposition and trying to find the moment to go through. Sometimes it is that midfielder that allows the position to get the one versus one in the forward line. We are missing that player.
Jordi is more of a wide player that plays on his own tempo. I know against Stoke the fans got frustrated with him because they didn’t understand that we needed to have possession. We needed someone to stop the game as it was going crazy from box to box and this was helping Stoke with the 50/50 ball. The crowd were getting a little bit anxious.
Jordi plays in a different way. We need to grow as a team to allow Jordi to have a bigger influence. At the moment he sometimes seems too slow or he loses possession too cheaply when really that is his strength.
He is the one that always keeps possession and in a way he stops the tempo and changes the game with a quick pass or with a good decision. We haven’t seen the best of Jordi but I think that is because the way we play, we haven’t helped Jordi either.
That is when Jordi will be successful with us is a sign that we have come a really long way.
One player who seems to have been a particular target of frustration this season has been Jason Scotland. How do you react when you hear people boo your players? How do you feel when you hear that?
Well, everything we do is for the fans. Then when the fans are affecting a player to help get a result for the football club that really disappoints me because we are not helping ourselves.
I have no problems with the fans after the game expressing their opinion about someone, myself, or the way we play. But for the ninety minutes, if we are going to affect our own results then I think we are a bit stupid, and that kills me.
Everything we do is for Wigan Athletic.
I understand different opinions and dislikes. I love the feedback from the fans but not booing during the game.
I have never met anyone like Jason Scotland who cares about his career, about the way he is. At the moment it is like a big mental block so when you see that during the game he is working hard to get the result, and he doesn’t get that feeling from the fans, it is disappointing.
When you brought Jordi and Jason in, where they players that you thought could have an immediate impact?
No, in a way I haven’t been able to treat Jordi and Jason in the same way that I have been able to treat James McCarthy and Victor Moses. When you bring players from the Championship with huge potential to come in an effectively fight for a place.
Because we lost so many players and others did not perform. For example the number one striker at the club should have been Olivier Kapo. You want Jason Scotland to fight against Olivier Kapo for his position.
And in a moment you realise that you cannot rely on certain individuals and we were forced to start with Jordi against Villa and Jason has had to play earlier than I had expected. I have been unfair with them in that respect.
In another situation we would have found Jason and Jordi slowly settling into our football club and into the Premiership and having a bigger impact. I know that they have suffered in the last six or seven months.
Now they are mentally strong and ready to have a massive impact. The difference, if you see James McCarthy, everyone is speaking about him from the top clubs to everyone. The reason why James is having that massive role for Wigan Athletic at nineteen is because for six months he has been coming to terms with his position, what he had to do, and how to fight to get into that role.
If we would have started him in the first league game, we would have lost James McCarthy because we are human beings. Football is not like a computer game. He was a substitute against Manchester United earlier in the season and he looked like a young boy. And then the other night he plays against Brazil and he looks like a real player. That has been seven months and the difference. We are human beings.
For example John Terry, we all watched John Terry against Egypt. He is well affected but what has happened and is certainly not the same player. If an England captain gets affected by what is going on in his personal situation, what chance does a boy that is finding out about the Premiership, a boy that is nineteen, have? Those are the differences between helping the player or not.
Going back to Jason Scotland, he is a massive influence on the pitch, the way he holds the ball up and brings others into the game. The only thing that is missing is that goal. I think it was Bernard (YOTAC) who did the article about the woodwork. He’s hit the woodwork three times and Emile Heskey had a great season for us and scored five goals all season and Scotland would only be two goals away from that. Can you please let Jason know that we all think he is a good player?
Yes, of course. Jason is a player that likes to feel loved by the fans. When he is, he performs in a different way. He maybe thirty years old, but he is such a sensitive player.
And I agree with you. For example the post statistics, these are key moments and if we finish 1-1 at Anfield and he scores the leveller then we have a different player and mentally he is in a different place.
You are looking at all these stats and he has hit the post three times, Hugo Rodallega, twice, and Charles N’Zogbia, five. For Wigan Athletic to create this amount of chances, I know we are in a transitional period, but we should be in a position to take advantage of these chances and the positions we are getting into. That is what the new pattern of play has given us.
When people have doubts about us not getting the result, it is only little tweaks that we need to improve. In terms of those stats mentioned, it is only the top seven teams that are normally getting these amount of positions and the number of time to hit the woodwork.
But looking at Jason, the moment that he scores a goal you will see a different player. But when he is on the pitch, he holds the ball and we play higher up the pitch. There are games that we need that. There are other games where you need a Hugo Rodallega who is going to run in behind the defenders and he turns them. To have these options for a team like ourselves is a huge strength.
Now you can really start to ask questions of the defenders. Like against Liverpool we can play with Jason Scotland, or Marcelo Moreno, or Hugo Rodallega, or Victor Moses, or James McCarthy coming from midfield. All of a sudden, you have so many options there that we need to use them well during the game.
It is not the same using Jason Scotland away from home or at home. It is not the same using Jason Scotland in the first forty-five minutes than the second forty-five. There are so many good things that we have got that we a re one result away from kicking on.
This would allow us to go to a good pre-season and really get the rewards of it.
Scoring goals has not been our only problem. Obviously we have had the 9-1, there have been plenty of 4-0’s, 4-1’s etc… We have had a lot of heavy defeats to be blunt. What can you do about that?
If we go down to detail I could show you. We played against Manchester United at home and we lost 5-0. I could guarantee you that for 60 minutes we were the better side.
It is very, very hard to explain, how mentally the team we were, trying so hard to keep the clean sheet. The moment that is gone, there was a reaction, a change, and we went with a different approach. Whether that was two strikers or more direct, or whatever it was.
At the moment I want the team to play the same way from the first minute to the last. Either 1-0 up or 1-0 down you keep going and if you deserve it, over the course of 95 minutes you will get more points than you lose.
But it has been a mental set that once we concede the first goal, we just folded. Against Manchester United we conceded five because the game finished. If we had had another ten minutes we would have conceded fifteen.
Against Spurs, we lost 9-1 when in the first half I felt we were the stronger side and we were getting stronger. I told them at half time we start the way we finish. Charles N’Zogbia hit the crossbar and Jason Scotland had two chances, and we were looking stronger.
Then in forty minutes we concede eight goals. Forty minutes, they had ten chances. If we got all of us, a team of eleven, at White Hart Lane, playing against Spurs I would guarantee you we wouldn’t concede eight goals. It is just that mindset. We were so fragile and everything went it.
But how do you change that?
With the mentality. For example, Gary Caldwell brings you that. Every action matters. You go 1-0 down and we go again and we have changed that.
It is funny you say that as either last week or the week before I saw Caldwell having a go at Paul Scharner and he didn’t particularly like it that much and we haven’t seen that for a long time.
When we have conceded before, they seem to just put their heads down and walk back, but now since Caldwell has come in, he is pointing and shouting and it is fantastic to see that.
We have been missing that from day one. Because Mario is the captain, in a different way. He won’t tell people off, he won’t shout, he leads by his own actions and example.
But Gary Caldwell he tells you. You made that mistake, you had better get back to your level, and all of a sudden you get a reaction. You have a team caring about the next action and that is all it is.
We went 1-0 down against United and I am thinking we have been the better side. It is not a problem losing here. Our next action was to hit the crossbar with Hugo and then they score the second. And then it was embarrassing the way we folded. That has been a mental state and that is why in the first half of the season we couldn’t be consistent.
When we were in the game and controlling things we were okay, but the moment that we went 1-0 down, nobody would take responsibility and say ‘Oi, we had better wake up here.’ We had no leadership and Gary has changed that a lot.
You talk about players with that sort of mentality, who react and try to get other players into the game, last season, he didn’t always control it the best way, but Lee Cattermole did that. Where you planning to have him at the club for the first part of the season?
Yes, for the whole season. I watched him yesterday (for England under 21’s) and I felt so, so bad because I saw someone who is not enjoying his football and that has gone backwards.
Lee Cattermole has got the best switch of play in the British game and he is not using it at all. I feel that Lee playing with us, he would be that playmaker and get on the ball and switch the play. Like the way he played against Preston (in pre-season).
He was just outstanding. Many teams say they play Wigan Athletic just press them, press them high up and that is what we want to play through them with a little switch of play. Lee Cattermole was perfect for that.
Was that just a case of Steve Bruce turning his head?
It was, his agent, Steve Bruce, and at that time, he wanted to go back home.
At that time, we lost both Cattermole and Michael Brown and we seemed to lose a bit of steel?
Brown probably, and you have seen it this season with Portsmouth, is not the same player he was one year ago and it happens at that age. Six months can have a big influence.
Lee Cattermole is different. We wanted to keep him. But there is a moment when the player say I don’t want to play for Wigan Athletic that is disrespectful to the other players. So then you need to find a price you are happy to sell the player for and get it up front.
If someone is prepared to do that then we sell the player and move on. The moment you keep a player that doesn’t want to be here, you lose the player as well and it is a terrible reflection to the other players.
Lee Cattermole is the last player we wanted to lose but if Lee Cattermole is not going to be himself then you are losing your time.
ED JONES: Just a fact about Lee. During his time with the club, he never once found himself a place to live. He lived out of hotels for a year and that is how much he was thinking long term.
He had a short term rent near where Titus Bramble lives and then when Steve Bruce left he moved into a hotel. But if you are looking at Lee Cattermole the way he played against us when we played Sunderland up there.
So where does Ben Watson fit into all this?
Ben is probably the best technical player we have and he is missing that tempo. That is why Ben being at West Brom, he could click. We can call him back after 28 days.
When you have a technical player, and the biggest example is Josep Guardiola (formerly a Barcelona player and now manager), he was thin, he couldn’t compete for any balls, but the boy was getting on the ball fifty times per half.
Ben at the moment is coming from the Championship which is very direct, and there is a lot of second balls, the ball would find him. When the ball finds him he will find a good solution. A good pass, a good switch, but he would touch the ball five times per half.
And then because he hasn’t got that physical strength he has less impact. Like when we played against Blackpool in the cup, he was a passenger. Yes he was okay when he got on the ball but if you want to affect the game by getting on the ball you need to get on the ball ten times more than any other midfielder. This is where we have been working with him. At the moment he comes into the game and he doesn’t affect it enough.
That is why against Blackpool I played Momo Diame and Ben Watson to see specifically if they could get on the ball and play. But Blackpool were getting through as if there was nobody there. That is where players need to step up.
Like when we are talking about levels, between Premiership and Championship. If you rely on your physical strength you will find a level. If you rely on your technical ability, if the ball finds you, instead of you finding the ball, you will find a level.
Like Ben Watson in the Championship he will play and be the most effective player in the game. Coming into the Premiership there is a lot of possession and unless you get on the ball to get into positions to get the ball, you are not going to affect the game.
So you still see a future for him at Wigan Athletic?
Yes, yes. If he can click, if he can step up, if he can get on the ball he will be a Premiership player. That is where playing with West Brom who try to play football with possession, playing a midfield three as well, I am hoping he will get that click. If he can get that he can be a better player than Lee Cattermole in that position with the technical side. Lee has got the other side, the way he closes players down.
The new pitch, against Tottenham and Bolton we struggled with our football and I think the front man got a bit isolated. Obviously they had Peter Crouch and Kevin Davies respectively for the long ball side of it. Will this new pitch help the football?
It will, but against Spurs the pitch affected both teams. The way we have always been successful at home is on the counter attack and we always get the teams exposed. They have their back four and we have our front three plus someone running with the ball.
Because of the condition of the pitch we couldn’t do that against Spurs. It then seemed that the two wide players were dropping a little bit to get on the ball and this left Marcelo a little isolated.
When you haven’t got that possession the pitch affects us as we are not able to get further up the pitch. It is this reason that in the second half we changed it a little bit and we played with Hugo just behind Marcelo and having Victor a little bit closer.
We got in better positions but then Spurs were just happy to defend and get men behind the ball. They were playing at 1-0 up and they didn’t take any initiative. There was an excuse that we couldn’t play on this pitch and so in a way it helped them.
Until the first goal it was a very level game, there was not much quality, not much for them, not much for us, and the first goal allowed them to play with the score line.
And those two big decisions, you don’t get such bad calls in a small period. Like the Birmingham penalty was a disgraceful decision and the goal [Defoe for Tottenham] should have been disallowed. But there is nothing we can do about that.
The reality is that those two decisions affected the results but I just hope we get a few decisions our way!
Rather than decisions we need to rely on what we are doing. The rest you just cannot control in football.
It is national pie week, and now you are no longer a player, do you eat more pies?
Yeah, meat and potato pie, I think that is the main one I like.
And finally, why don’t you wear a Wigan Athletic scarf, is this the clash with the brown shoes?
No, I have said this to Ed Jones that we need to get a Wigan Athletic scarf for the day we play Manchester City. That way he can wear his Manchester City scarf and I will wear my Wigan Athletic scarf, but we haven’t found one!
