Martin Samuel Interview with Michel Platini

Martin Samuel meets Michel Platini - read the FULL transcript from Sportsmail's exclusive interview with UEFA's president




Martin Samuel: I sat with David Gill [chief executive of Manchester United] on a plane recently and we talked about financial fair play. I asked him for one reason, just one reason, why it wouldn’t hand the league title to Manchester United every year, because their financial advantage would be so great. And he couldn’t come up with one, not one actual reason. Can you come up with one reason why Manchester United will not now be so advantaged because of financial fair play?


David Farrelly (UEFA head of communications): The fact that it’s an advantage for Manchester United – but only Manchester United?


Samuel: It would apply to Bayern Munich, it would apply to any of the elite clubs.


Michel Platini: I am not in this way. I am not in this feeling. I am in the feeling to protect the clubs. All of the clubs are having big problems – they are all having big losses. Debts and big losses. It is not a question to make advantage to one or the other. It is to protect the cultural aspect of the football in Europe. I want to protect the club. Because when you have €1.5billion of losses every year, one day you will have big problems like in Rangers, like in Portsmouth, like in many, many clubs. My job was not to say I protect Bayern Munich, or Manchester, I want to protect all the clubs that are in big difficulties, financial difficulties. That is why we organise financial fair play in this way. Then we give to the financial experts to apply the morality of this financial fair play. And we are working for two or three years on how we can work on the finances of the clubs to help the clubs to survive through the big problems that we face today. That is how I feel. It is not the goal to protect Manchester or another club, it is to protect all the football, because football is beautiful. It is about patrimony of the European football and I have to protect all the clubs. That is my idea.


Samuel: I don’t think for one second that your idea was to protect Manchester United or to protect Barcelona, my point is that the way that the financial fair play rules have been set up, that is what is going to happen. I was asking how can you prevent that happening?


Platini: To not to spend more money than we receive. That is the only thing, it is a small sentence, but is a very, very beautiful sentence. And what’s happened with Rangers, Rangers have everything, they have the fans, they have the public, but they are pshht and bankrupt. And I have to protect them. I think with this financial fair play we will not have clubs that will be getting in difficulty. But it is up to me to find the way, I want to improve them. And when you begin by a white book, you can have the feelings, the mentality and the moralities – but you have to put them, the regulations, on the book. We take three years, four years because we make a deal with all the clubs that we will wait four years to put this. Manchester City, Chelsea, they make big efforts, perhaps it’s not enough to be inside financial fair play but it is a big effort because they know that we will take a decision next year.


Samuel: When it started, I would imagine one of the people that you were looking to control would be Roman Abramovich [owner] at Chelsea, because of the idea he is financial doping. Roman Abramovich ended up on your side, on the same side as you. So if he is in favour of your regulations, is that not a clue that the regulations are actually protecting the elite, rather than solving the problem overall?

Platini: No, because I am not a big financial expert about the financial fair play. I have a mentality and morality. It is the first time that we have unanimity about creating financial fair play. Unanimity by the clubs, unanimity by the owners of the clubs, unanimity by the unions of the players, unanimity by the politicians, the parliaments, the European commission, unanimity by national associations, everybody wanted that I put regulation. I spoke with some people like Silvio Berlusconi [owner, AC Milan], like Massimo Moratti [owner, Inter Milan], that were putting €100 million in every year, they said, ‘Michel, put regulation because we can’t pay more, it is finished.’ OK, so this time we have unanimity. It was not easy to begin where we go. We ask the financial experts of Europe, we have a disciplinary matter, we are rehearsing and in four years we make a deal with all the clubs and it will take four years to do that. Now coming back to the question, I think that Abramovich is like Mr Moratti, is like Mr Berlusconi, he says, ‘OK stop. I don’t want to play this bad game with those other clubs paying more, more, more and lose a lot of money.’


Samuel: But if you end up on the same side as the very guy that you were looking to control, how can your original principle be the right one? There surely is another way to control it, is what I’m saying. That if you are trying to control Roman Abramovich and in the end Roman Abramovich is saying, ‘Yeah, this is a good idea, I like this,’ surely that means you are playing into his hands because he’s not only going to vote for something that’s going to benefit him?


Platini: My only idea, that all the people that are convinced of the financial fair play, is to put regulations that are in the football from long, long, long time and at the end you have a lot of clubs that are disappearing. But it is not an English or French matter –


Samuel:– I didn’t say it was English or French.


Platini: No, no. But we have many problems in history – because it’s another system of payment for players. It’s very different and we have to find regulation for the 53 national associations. But I think it is a very moral project and at the beginning of a moral project perhaps not everything is perfect but we will try to reach perfection as soon as possible.


Samuel: One of the things that I cannot understand with financial fair play is why UEFA, why you, did not take a more holistic approach to it. For instance, Champions League money. If the distribution of Champions League money was, through the league more than concentrated on three or four clubs, then the disparity which is going to be caused, with one team having so much more money than other teams and the other teams not being able to spend money to catch up, that would not be such an issue. Is that not something you could look at?


Platini: Yes, I totally accept what you say, but it is a little bit more complicated because there was a fight some years ago with the clubs and UEFA, the G14. And I destroy the G14 but one of the conditions of this stop is that we are not looking for the distribution of money from the clubs for some years. We create, with Mr Rummenigge [chairman, European Clubs’ Association, chief executive officer Bayern Munich], the clubs create a big union of clubs, the European Clubs’ Association. There is 200. That is a joint venture between UEFA and the clubs, because now the clubs, and UEFA, and the leagues, and the players, we have a Memorandum of Understanding. That the money is received by the competition for the clubs, and we give to the clubs. I think it’s not possible for me to decide where is going the money to the clubs. But if the ECA decided that there is a better redistribution of the money, another distribution, I will follow them. But it is their money to the clubs, it is up to them to redistribute these things. I don’t want to have a big fight with the clubs like in the past and we have a memo of understanding that we can do nothing without permission of the clubs. On the competition, on the money, on the regulations, in this Memorandum of Understanding, we have to agree both to change. If we don’t agree, we stop the discussion. We can’t change now the results and I think on the distribution, I totally agree with you. But it is their money and if they want a better distribution they can do this distribution.


Samuel: But the powerful clubs are never going to vote to redistribute the money.


Platini: They can vote. There is a company they can vote, the poor. The small clubs they can vote, then the people can decide what is the distribution and if the majority want the new distribution, we will accept. We will give more money to the Europa League, show the solidarity of the big clubs, and we make a step but if there is something else we have to discuss with the clubs how we can work better. But I understand, I understand.


Samuel: But surely it’s your competition. It’s UEFA’s competition.


Platini: It’s our competition but the clubs don’t think it is our competition. They think that it’s their competition, that we organise their competition. And, man, it was a big fight from the beginning, from 10 years, from 15 years with G14, with the clubs that say, it’s our money, we have to organise our money. We are strong and tough to say no, no, it’s a competition of UEFA and you want it. But in the redistribution I am totally agreeing with you. If they want to change we will fully support it.


Samuel: What would you think is the correct distribution? My idea would be 25 per cent to the competing club, 75 per cent to the rest of the league to be split between, in England’s case, the other 19 teams.


Platini: We have some solidarity. We have €50 or 60m that we give by solidarity to the 53 leagues, but it is not the big amount that you say. We do all the clubs of the Premier League there is some money that we give. But it is not the big amounts.


Samuel: I’ve got the figure here. (Manchester United can take upwards of £40million from the Champions League, the solidarity payment is £1.3m, according to UEFA)


Platini: For many clubs in the east of Europe it is a big amount. But I would like that is coming from the clubs, this – I would be very happy to do that.


Samuel: I know what you are saying about G14 but you’ve pushed other things through. Why couldn’t you have been more pro-active on this?


Platini: Because we make a deal six years ago to the G14 and they ask me and say ‘OK Michel, but for the moment, we don’t touch the distribution of the money.’


Samuel: How long has the deal got to go?


Platini: I have to speak with Rummenigge. (The answer is : Until 2018 – and he only signed the latest one last year)

Samuel: Well, there you go.


Platini: It’s a good question. But I don’t want to open the floor of a public debate on that because, you know, it’s complicated. I have to do that quietly, secretly with the people of the clubs.


Samuel: Speaking of Herr Rummenigge, did you see the comments from Jurgen Klopp [coach of Borussia Dortmund] this morning?


Platini: No.


Samuel: He says he fears the Bundesliga becoming like the Scottish Premier League, with Bayern Munich so dominant. Now, we already think over here that Spain is like the Scottish Premier League, or like it used to be, not in terms of the quality obviously -


Platini: You mean the same two clubs every year?


Samuel: Two clubs every year, but not just two clubs every year Michel, but with no-one else having a chance. I mean, it’s not right.


Platini: Do you think I am responsible of that?


Samuel: I think you’re partly responsible, because of financial fair play.


Platini: Do you think that if we give €20m to one club with a €300m budget, it’s a lot?


Samuel: I think that the financial fair play regulations will only make teams like Bayern Munich stronger and they will just continue to become more and more powerful and earn more and more and the leagues in time will become uncompetitive. I think that the distribution of the Champions League money has had that effect in the smaller leagues, Belarus for example. BATE Borisov have won seven straight titles, Olympiakos in Greece are now 15 out of 17 because obviously in a smaller league, UEFA’s money, concentrated on one club, has a devastating effect. And the thing is called ‘fair play’.


Platini: Totally, I can understand very well –


Samuel: And that’s why I do think, in part, not in total, but in part, UEFA are responsible and that is one of the reasons why I was asking about what can you do to stop every league ending up like Scotland or even worse than Scotland in the case of Greece’s league. How can you affect that with the money from the Champions League?


Platini: I totally understand your discussion and I think we can think about that. But I think it is not a question of the Champions League, it is a question of facilities or stadiums, instead of the Champions League. Because look at all the stadiums. They have stadiums of 80,000 people. Look what’s happening in Manchester or in Munich. In Munich, the stadium brings €110m for the clubs. One hundred and 10 million. Milan, where the stadium is a disaster, is 30 million. There is 80 million or 90 million in Dortmund because there is 80,000 people, hospitality, food, beers, they bring more and this creates a big difference. I think it’s not the Champions League, because when you give 30 million to Manchester with 380 million of budget, it’s 10 per cent but the facilities of the stadium bring more, more, more money than the Champions League. It could be a big discussion, I totally agree with you, with all the big clubs to say we can’t continue like that, what we can do altogether and think, what we can do? I like your approach, it will be a big problem if Bayern wins by 20 points or Dortmund wins by 20 points, Barcelona or Real Madrid. It will change in Spain because in two or three years we will have the centralisation of the TV rights. We push and we support that and it will arrive, that means that perhaps in Spain it will be the beginning. Now the stadium of Dortmund or the stadium of Munich is bringing more than 100 million receipts. It is not a matter of the President of UEFA if a beautiful stadium brings beer, pizza. It is difficult for me to do that. It could be put before the statute committee, a big application of how we balance more this big competition. I totally agree with you, it’s a nice point for the future.


Samuel: That’s my point with financial fair play. If you link everything to turnover, there’s no way you can get in front of Bayern Munich, because you will never match their turnover.


Platini: Yes, but financial fair play is to protect the club, it’s to protect the club from the bankrupt, from the problems that they will see in the future. It’s not a matter to be more competitive. Financial fair play is to put regulation. If you want to buy a Ferrari, if you have the money you buy a Ferrari, if you don’t have the money, you can’t buy the Ferrari. In football if you do not have the money, you can buy the Ferrari, the player and you pay him and everything, and you win – cheating. That is not correct, if you don’t have the money. But if you have the money, everything is permitted because you have the money. And my job is to regulate this situation, it’s not to have a better competition, it’s to protect the club. Glasgow, Portsmouth, and many others they are in big bankrupt and they will disappear. That was my point. But this point is a very, very, very interesting point and it could be a reflection for me in the next time. To put more competition.


Samuel: I totally understand about protection, but I don’t think enough has been thought about competition. And also the difference between the countries. You say about Bayern Munich and Dortmund. In Germany, football clubs get a lot of Government help with their stadiums, which they don’t necessarily get, for instance, in England. I don’t know about the countries in France: because of the Championship in 2016, I imagine the Government will be helpful.


Platini: That is a big problem for me in France because we have not the same rules in the same country. It is not the same rules because perhaps advertising of alcohol is permitted in England but it is not permitted in France. Advertising on cigarettes is allowed in some countries and is not permitted in some other country. And of course it is complicated. But we have to do something. We have to do something to protect what you want to protect and what they want to protect. We have to begin by something, financial fair play is the beginning of perhaps more rules in the future. I began these rules, nobody began the rules before me –


Samuel: I appreciate that –


Platini: Nobody began – I am the only stupid guy who began that. I receive many support of all the families of football and the political way, but it’s not easy to begin by something. The problem of Chelsea is not the problems of Shakhtar Donetsk, are not the problems of Malta, the problem of Finland, the problem in Malaga – it’s complicated. Because in Europe, everybody, every people looks at his own profit and local interest. We are in the middle – ha, ha – like a No 10, you have to give the ball to Van Persie, to other people. But it is nice.


Samuel: This is my point about the holistic management. One of the things that I have noticed, talking about Wayne Rooney and Paris Saint-Germain. You’ve now got 75 per cent top rate tax in France? I’m correct?


Platini: Yes we have 75 per cent tax. But now it is not the people who pay the tax , the 75 per cent, it will be the company who pay. They change, they change the policy, they always change.


Samuel: I was thinking that at Manchester United, and again, I will make the maths easy, say Rooney earns £200,000 per week. Our top rate tax is 45 per cent, so he takes home £110,000 per week. If he was to go to Paris Saint-Germain, with the top rate tax as it is, they would have to pay him £440,000 pounds per week.


Platini: Yes, yes.


Samuel: So everything is different country to country. Bayern Munich get their stadium built for them, that doesn’t really happen here.


Platini: The big problem you have is that the Qataris are ready to pay that £440,000. It is a big problem. This is why we have to say ‘use the money that you have’. I think that is unsettling to many people that want to come into football. They will walk away.


Samuel: And you don’t care if they walk away?


Platini: Yes.


Farrelly: That’s the whole reason, we don’t want people coming in one day, putting a lot of money in and then walking away and the club is bankrupt.


Platini: Now what I read from some clubs they lost €200 million. We want to stop that.


Samuel: But if I was the owner of Paris Saint-Germain, my argument to you would be, well we can’t do anything about the tax system in France, we have got to pay this man £440,000 a week, to give him the same money. All we are trying to do is give him the same money as Manchester United. So we can’t adhere to financial fair play on a level playing field.


Platini: But that is financial fair play and fair play and finance. It is different. In financial fair play it is not possible to put everything, we have to put what is possible to do. In financial fair play, if we don’t do something, we never do financial fair play. If we begin to think about the tax of each country, because of the advertising of this country, because of the stadiums are different in this country, you will do nothing. It was important to begin by something because in some cases you spend more money than you have. We have to look at how you receive the money, we decide how you can spend the money by the salary and by everything. I take you an example. In France there is the Direction Nationale du Contrôle de Gestion. But they don’t care about the money, they care only if you don’t have the money to pay. That means Paris Saint-Germain have 300 million of losses, but they don’t care if the Qataris pay 300 million. They are OK with them. For us, it is not OK. Because they have to pay the salary in proportion to the money they received. It is not possible to have a sponsor of 300 million, and if we decided that there is only 50 million – they have to pay the bill with the money they have of 50 million because 300 million is not possible. It’s not correct, it’s not the market price and we have to care about that. We have the morality, the mentality to do these things, that is executive sense, we have some financial experts, some disciplinary people, some panels, they decide what will be the decision that we have to take.


Samuel: I was going to come to that.


Platini: I will be tired about financial fair play. We can speak about football, too.


Samuel: But it is football, isn’t it? It is football.


Platini: It is football.


Samuel: That’s what I was going to ask you about. Because one of the people who you have got in charge of financial fair play is Jean-Luc Dehaene. He was in charge of a bank that needed to be bailed out £5.18billion. Not euros, pounds. How can he be in charge of financial fair play? He was meant to come here to speak and the bank went skint on that day and he had to cancel. How can he be telling a football club, this is how you run your football club?


Platini: What do you want I answer?


Samuel: Just an answer. How?


Platini: OK. I miss a penalty one day and I score a goal the day after.


Samuel: It’s a bit bigger than that, Michel, come on.


Platini: OK, it’s not an answer. But he is at the beginning of the procedure, he has a contract for some years and we will see at the end of his contract, what we can do. But he is from the beginning, let us finish the procedure and then we will see what’s happened. But he was Prime Minister of Belgium with big success. OK, he lost one goal, he is not he is a bad player because he lost one goal.


Samuel: His bank lost £9.73bn.


Platini: OK, two goals.


Samuel: February 23, 2012, Dexia Holdings, a loss of 9.73bn. The whole continent nearly went down. That would have taken the euro down if they hadn’t bailed out Dexia. I am just thinking of the credibility of your project.


Platini: When we decided we have many choices. He was recognised very widely within many, many people. What I think is he is not at the beginning of the procedure, he arrived at the end, not at the beginning. But OK, we will take a decision on the contract and when he finished his task. His task is to create the financial fair play.


Samuel: Johan Lokhorst is also on it. He was a director of Lotus Bakeries, they were £22.9m pounds in debt.


Farrelly: The important point of the panel, Martin, is that they are auditing figures. They are auditing public figures.


Platini: I can tell you one thing, perhaps because they know how to make debts they will be better at the financial fair play?


Samuel: I think you are clutching at straws there, Michel.


Platini: You know for me it is not easy to speak in English about financial fair play and to explain quietly and -


Farrelly: Calmly?


Platini: No, because my vocabulary my language isn’t English. It’s not –


Samuel: I do appreciate that.


Platini: Yes but I am not enough vocabulary to speak about many things.


Farrelly: The technical details, Martin.


Platini: Technical details.


Farrelly: He doesn’t want to, he’s not comfortable with, it’s not that he isn’t able to answer your questions.


Platini: But if you wish one day I will send you to meet who is responsible for the financial fair play. It will be better. I will speak about the moralities. but then you have all the technical details of these problems, they can explain it to you better than me.


Samuel: I understand the morality. I’m not against the morality of it.


Platini: You put me some problems, I understand. It’s OK. It’s your job to get me to answer to you.


Farrelly: The adjudicator is the one that makes the decisions afterwards. We’ve got former heads of the European Court of Justice involved in that. They’re the ones who have to make the decisions, based on the figures that will not be challenged. So the other part, it’s the decision making at the end, which is not Mr Dehaene’s job, which is the crucial aspect of the financial fair play. Mr Pablo Rodriguez, he’s the one making the situation in Malaga [banned from Europe next season for financial irregularities], he’s the one making the decisions. In terms of the two bodies that are involved, that is actually the key one in terms of clubs and in terms of clubs not participating in competitions because they don’t adhere to the rules. The rules have been checked by Mr Dehaene.


Samuel: OK. I will move on from financial fair play very soon.


Platini: Phew.


Samuel: But just two more. It’s a big thing, Michel. I’ve been writing about it for six years now. I’ve not just arrived here.


Platini: I know it’s a big thing but don’t forget one thing: I put this. And I deserve to say that. It is not easy, the clubs, the people, they don’t want the financial fair play. I know that. But we keep tough and we go.


Samuel: What about two very human elements of financial fair play. That it will take the power away from football people, the manager, the coach, and place it in the hands of the accountants. Because it’s going to be about revenue streams and earnings, it’s going to be about numbers and do the numbers add up. And that takes it away from the guy that’s standing on the touchline saying, we need a central defender. And it puts it in the hands of a guy that’s got a load of numbers that nobody else understands other than him. Saying, no you don’t, because it says so on this piece of paper that you can’t do that.


Platini: And that is increased by the problem of third party ownership. That is the most important problem. I am very proud of England and France they don’t accept this. UEFA support totally this, we have to fight against all of the European country but we have to ask FIFA to take care of that, to resolve this problem. If they don’t do that, we will do it as part of financial fair play. But it is not a matter for the moment for UEFA because it’s FIFA who manage the international transfer system. And if they don’t do, FIFA, in Europe we will do it through financial fair play.


Samuel: What about the problem that the accountant will now be the most important man at the club?


Platini: For me the most important man at the club are the players.


Samuel: For me too. But once everything is linked to numbers, it’s the accountant. The accountant tells everybody everything.


Farrelly: I don’t think that’s necessarily the objective here.


Samuel: I didn’t say that. I don’t think these are the objectives. I don’t think this is what was intended, I just think it is what has happened.


Platini: It wasn’t exactly in the past that all the big, all the best players were always at the clubs with all the money. In the past it was not the accountant but the president of the club. He had the money so he managed what happened. But it is not so bad to put controls, we put controls so it is the beginning of a new world. Because in the financial fair play we can see what are the problems, we can see what are the good things, we discover what good things are coming, what are the problems that are coming. The partnership will resolve the next problems that we will face, because I am not sure that FIFA will do that. And we have to do that.


Samuel: You’re talking third party ownership. Right. Since Carlos Tevez in 2007 [when West Ham United played Tevez while his rights were owned by a third party], they’ve had six years to do it and they haven’t done it.


Platini: That’s what I have said. It is coming from South America. All the clubs in South America are in bankrupt because of that, because they keep the money of the clubs. They buy the contract of the player, they belong to people, to the President and we are not to do that as it will kill the clubs. So it means we take care over what we do, that’s financial fair play. And that is the consequences of financial fair play – we can do many things. But I tell you, it’s the beginning of the procedure, nobody, nothing is perfect. But we will be better and better in two years.


Samuel: So if, as a result of this, things were happening that you didn’t like, the leagues were becoming less competitive, you would not change from financial fair play, but you would then adapt elements of financial fair play to try to make leagues more competitive to give the power back to the –


Platini: Don’t give us more problems than we have – because we can only take care of the clubs that participate to our competitions.


Samuel: I totally realise that. Queens Park Rangers are nothing to do with you.


Platini: I think my job is if there is not a financial fair play in France, or in England, is to push the leagues to go because at the end we have to be united, all together in this financial fair play.


Samuel: The very final question on it. Will it not be a consequence of this that if the owner can’t put the money in, he has got to get the money from somewhere else. The fans. In the end the bill ends up with the fans.


Platini: I support Supporters Direct, an association of fans. They help the clubs that have a big problem with finance to buy the clubs for the fans.


Samuel: I’m thinking more of ticket prices, things like that. If they have to squeeze every bit of revenue out of the stadium to buy the players, to afford the transfers, to afford the wages, will it not –


Platini: We would rather a system like Real Madrid or Barcelona, where the association is the owner of the club. There is a management, they decide the management of the club. It is why we help these associations, we support them because it is a way also to help the club to survive. Not perhaps the biggest clubs, there are so many clubs in the league, they are all right, they are in no difficulty. I do this because I think that I trust the identity of the club, I trust the identity. Because now if you have a club of football the only people that remain in the club are the fans. The president is coming, the coach is coming, the players are coming. The only identity is the fans and if they can like the system in Spain, I think it would be good for the clubs.


Samuel: Change the subject to the Champions League. Arsenal played Olympiacos at the group stage this year, so that’s 2012, they played them in the group stage in 2011, they played them in the group stages in 2009 –


Platini: Arsene [Wenger] likes to go to Greece – he has many friends.


Samuel: The seeding system often means that the same rematches occur. Should you not freshen that?


Platini: Yes. We have to do something. I totally agree with you. But we don’t want to change every year. We go in cycles and the next cycle will be in 2015 and perhaps we will have to refresh something. For me it is not normal that the champion of the competition is not –


Samuel: Top seed. Absolutely.


Platini: But it’s an old system and I have to discuss with the clubs, too, because of that. Real Madrid will be not in favour, Arsenal. I think we have to discuss but I totally agree – we think about that.


Samuel: Manchester City won the league last year, ended up in the hardest group. Arsenal haven’t won a thing since 2005 and are top seeds.


Platini: After the draw in Monte Carlo this year, I said to my team you have to propose me something better and to put a bigger implementation for the champion of the competition of the domestic league. I totally agree. I don’t know if it’s easy to do but we have to do something.


Farrelly: In terms of the changes that have been made, Martin, in the Champions League, the Champions path and the other path through qualification, the difference of teams has increased by 30 per cent. So we were having the same teams all the time, now we don’t have that. So one thing has been addressed, but obviously you both agree, the other thing now has to be discussed.


Platini: But you know we have the problem of some clubs like Milan who say, ‘We have the most titled team in Europe and we want to play in the Champions League every year.’


Samuel: So get 11 better players and win the league.


Platini: Oui. We have to help the champions more than the other, it’s not normal that we have a group where Manchester City is the fourth team of a group where there is only champions – it is not right. I totally agree with you. But to explain that in the administration is not so easy, eh? In UEFA? Now I am the boss I have to say yes, we have to do that.


Samuel: Yes, you’re the boss, it’s your call. The other thing I was going to ask about the Champions League is that you decide where the final is going to be so far in advance. So you end up last year, Bayern Munich are playing at their own stadium. Is that not something that could also be addressed, where you decide – once you know the 32 teams –where the final is going to be?


Platini: That is complicated because we have to negotiate all the hospitalities. The stadium, the hotels, before. Otherwise, the rooms, you have the same problem in Ukraine, the rooms instead of being €100 would be €500. We have to organise everything before, we have to take time to decide.


Samuel: But it could be nine months. Nine months you should be able to decide it surely? Your negotiators are going to have to work harder Michel. Crack the whip!


Platini: Nine months is too short. If I listen to the people, it is too short.


Samuel: They just want an easy life.


Platini: No, no it’s not easy –


Samuel: I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about them.


Platini: It’s not just to organise the Champions League, it’s the Europa League, the Under 17, and it’s difficult. But I could freshen.


Samuel: If I may tackle you on the European Championship.


Platini: Yes, you are against 2020.


Samuel: Yes I’m against 2020 but I’m also against 24 teams.


Platini: You are Turkish? Only the Turkish are against 2020.


Samuel: No, no, but we can come to that. I first wanted to talk about the expansion from 16 to 24 teams.


Platini: Twenty four? It was a proposal. It was a proposal in Scotland when I was elected in 2007. In the Congress.


Samuel: But does it not dilute the competition?


Platini: No. OK, but it’s the 53 associations. They prefer to be 24.


Samuel: They’d prefer to be 53 if you let them but sooner or later you have got to say, ‘You’re not good enough’.


Platini: Of course. But yes, 24 are good enough, I think so.


Samuel: Do you really?


Platini: Yes. Trust me on football. In financial fair play perhaps, no, but on football. It was asked by Scotland and Ireland, then for one year when I become president, it was 2007, for one year-and-a-half I think about that because it was decided in Vienna, just before the final of the Euro 2008. I saw more advantages that not. First of all the criteria of the team, I think we can have 24 good teams. Because in 2008 we have not one British team.


Samuel: But we weren’t good enough.


Platini: You were not good enough to be in the 16 but you were good enough to be in the 24.


Samuel: But we don’t deserve to be there, it’s the finals. You have got to get only the best teams there.


Platini: Then, if you look at the stadiums that you have to build for the Euro, you play three games in the stadium – it’s a lot of money for three games. Because you have only 16.


Samuel: That, I accept.

Platini: Then I have to bring some national association to participate to the Euro, because you have to give them sometimes the pleasure to participate. If you have 13 teams in the World Cup and 16 teams in the Euro, you have always 16 teams that participate and I have to give to one country the pleasure to win to participate to the competition. Look at the rugby. Wales, sometimes they win.


Samuel: But Wales are not –


Platini: They are the prime example. Of course they win, I have to give them the pleasure to win sometimes.


Samuel: But with respect, Wales in rugby are not like Wales in football. Wales in rugby are a genuine force. A rugby team that would compare to Wales are Georgia or Russia – they’re not in the Six Nations.


Platini: Yes, but when Wales win, they are proud, the public. The Welsh people they are proud that their team is winning. I have to give sometimes to Slovakia or to Czech Republic or to Norway, I have to give them the pleasure to participate. It’s good for the development of the football. You know I was a captain at the Euro in 1984, and I understand what you are saying. When you say about many things, I say, why not? But then when you ask the 53 associations. I think it’s not bad, because you have the quality of 24. I am sure that we have the quality of 24.


Samuel: Lithuania would have qualified among 24 teams for Euro 2012. Lithuania drew with Lichtenstein.


Platini: No, no, that is not true what you say. Why Lithuania will qualify?


Samuel: Lithuania in 2012, they were one of the teams that Martin Kallen [UEFA chief executive for the 2012 European Championship], said were missing. He said there were some great teams that aren’t present, and one of the teams he named was Lithuania.

Platini: Martin Kallen don’t know about football. He is good at organising tournaments, but let him not speak of football. But it’s a new system, and OK it’s a change. It’s a change.


Samuel: But 24 teams, Michel. The World Cup in 1986 had 24 teams. Uruguay qualified for the last 16, didn’t win a group match, got beat 6-1 by Denmark in the group and still went through. How do you prevent there being a lot of dead rubbers and a lot of inferior games, frankly. You say there were no British teams at the Championship in 2008 – England weren’t good enough to be there in 2008. They couldn’t come in the top two in their group.


Platini: I wanted to make you a pleasure and you criticise me because I wanted to bring England to Euro. I don’t know what to do to make you a pleasure.


Samuel: You’re not going to get round me as easy as that.


Platini: OK, in the end it was one year to listen to everybody and the quality of 24 is enough. I think so. I am sure.


Samuel: Is it not going to make it very hard for you to sell the television for the qualifiers because there are going to be a lot of dead games.


Platini: My job is to bring back, to think about the football of the national associations. To give more power because the Champions League –


Samuel: Is dominant.


Platini: There is a trio of top competitions, with the football of the national associations, the football of the leagues and the Champions League. It’s so popular.


Samuel: It’s a great tournament.


Platini: I have to win back the football of the national associations. It is why we make a week of the football for the national associations, buy in the qualifiers, buy in all the games, so we can have a show, a centralisation, to show all the games during these two weeks. That means that when before you have the possibility to see only England against Montenegro, we will have all the games of the European qualifiers and we win back the competition of the national association. It’s good. And when you have so many games during two weeks of the national associations, you can have transmissions about all the games, all the goals –


Farrelly: So you can see more football. At the moment, if you take a World Cup qualifying match night now, if you are at an England match, you don’t see any other football. Now you’ll be able to see all of it.


Platini: I think it was a good idea. The only problem of the 24 are the qualifications. It will be less interesting.


Samuel: That was my point.


Platini: So we have to change the system of qualification process.


Samuel: How would you do that?


Platini: We have made some proposals to the national associations last time at the congress of Cyprus. And they didn’t want to change because they didn’t anticipate the problem. But we anticipate the problem so we have to discuss with all the national associations. But I think in the next year in Dubrovnik, we have to think about the qualification. They have to be better, instead of a group of seven with three qualifying – we have to think something, we have to think of something better for the success of European football.


Samuel: Like what?


Platini: We have many ideas.


Samuel: Give us one. Your best one.


Platini: The best one for me can be not the best one for you. And perhaps not the best for the associations, and tomorrow they kill me in the newspaper.


Samuel: But what do you think is the best one?


Platini: No, no, first we have to propose. We can propose many things. If you think a little you will see that you can have more than one proposal.


Samuel: I think about stuff like this all the time, Michel.


Platini: You can have two ways of qualification. You can have a qualification, perhaps with the group, when you take only the first. The first. You can play six games – we have 12 matchdays. So it means that we can make a tournament for the first, and perhaps we can make the same tournament to qualify those other 12 teams. That could be an idea. We can make tournament for the first – I don’t know perhaps in the United States, perhaps in Argentina, perhaps in Brazil – to develop the football in this country. Perhaps in London, perhaps in France, a tournament for the best team – that could be an idea. It could be a different sort of qualification. It means you have qualification for one, then the other 12 seats you have qualification for the lower team in Europe and official games to be another chance to be qualifying.


Farrelly: There’s Europe and then there is a World Cup qualification that has to be considered afterwards. There’s two things that need to be answered.


Platini: You know I have many, many, many ideas.


Samuel: Yes.


Platini: I have to rest sometimes. But we always make the decision democratically with all the families of the football.


Samuel: Talking of ideas, was it a good idea, March 21, the bidding for Euro 2020 opened. March 23, two days later, you said you were voting for Turkey. Was that your best idea?


Platini: I said that I’d vote for Turkey, but Turkey they vote for the Olympic Games. It was not possible to go to Turkey for the Euro if they want the Olympic Games, it was not possible.


Samuel: I know.


Platini: And they decided after that. It was not my responsibility.


Samuel: No. But what I mean Michel is why did you declare, two days after the process had opened, who you were voting for? In the annual congress of Istanbul you announced who you were voting for, at which point a lot of the interest in hosting the tournament died because the president had already declared for Turkey.


Platini: I answered a question. For 2020 if Turkey will be a candidate I will vote for them because France beat them 7-6 the last time. It was nice I said I vote for them. But it’s only one vote.


Samuel: But it’s the president’s vote.


Platini: I said I’d vote for Qatar [World Cup 2022], I said I’d vote for Russia [World Cup 2018] and I did. Now I said I will vote for Turkey. I didn’t vote for France as President, seven against six, it was close. But they change the rules the Turkish.


Samuel: But didn’t you cause yourself a problem? Would you not have had a greater choice of host countries had you not said, ‘I’m voting for Turkey’?


Platini: It’s just my vote, my vote.


Samuel: But you are an influential man, Michel, you know that.


Platini: No, no I will never influence the competition.


Samuel: I’m not saying you do, but if I was Romania and I wanted to host the European Championship, if Michel Platini said, 'I’m voting for Turkey', I would think, ‘Well that’s it, there’s no point in us competing.’


Platini: I am the only guy, I am the only guy in the petition of Qatar and Russia who said for who he vote. I was the only guy who said I voted for Qatar and I voted for Russia – instead to say oh Michel, correct Michel, you are very open and democratic, everybody criticised me because I vote for Qatar and for Russia.


Samuel: Why did you vote for Qatar?


Platini: Why I vote for Qatar? For the same reason that I vote for Russia.


Samuel: I don’t understand that.


Platini: Because there are some places that have never received the World Cup. And for the development of the football, it is very important.


Samuel: But that happens – there will always be some countries that can’t host the World Cup.


Platini: Yes, but they were not running.


Samuel: I know. But you voted for Qatar and then you wanted to move the World Cup to the winter. So you didn’t actually –


Platini: Beautiful, beautiful idea.


Samuel: But the proposal that you would now actually like to see isn’t the one you voted for, is it? The proposal you voted for has got the tournament there in 50 degree heat.


Platini: You know, we have some choice, we have some choice. For me, this was not a big choice. Because you have Japan who have received the the World Cup eight years before, then there was United States, they received the World Cup 15 years before, and Australia and Qatar. Qatari like all the Arab countries never received the World Cup – they run five times with Morocco, one time with Egypt, and they never received. And I said I will vote for Qatar because, like Russia, they never received the World Cup. The presentation of Qatar and Russia was the same. So why we not have the right to receive the World Cup one day? Why we not the right? Why is it never our country that receives the World Cup? Why Russia cannot receive the World Cup? Russia has presented their bid, they say 12 times Europe receives the World Cup it was in the West. We never received in the East. I think it’s time that sometimes we receive the World Cup. And it was my choice. I said I vote for Qatar, I vote for Turkey, because when I say that, I am free. I am not to go to see the President of Russia, the Prime Minister of England. Everybody know my vote and nobody disturb me and I have no problem of corruption, no problem of ideas, finished. And nobody came to see me. I am very quiet. You can imagine, when you have 15 bids and they all want to see you, they all want to propose to you and send visitors. We come to see you, our President want to see you, Mr Putin wants to see you, Mr Cameron want to see you, the Queen wants to see you. OK, OK. I say, don’t break me the balls. I am free and it’s finished. Stop. Is why always I want to announce my vote, then I am free and nobody comes to disturb me. Because then you receive all ambassadors of all countries. All the people with money. All your friends come. Stop, let me in peace.


Samuel: You say there that there can be no allegations of corruption. But France Football had you in a meeting with Nicolas Sarkozy [president of France, a lucrative business partner of Qatar, with many financial links] and –


Platini: I said to everybody that I had a meeting with Sarkozy–


Samuel: And the guy from Qatar. [Crown prince Sheik Tamim bin Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani. France Football alleges a meeting took place at the Elysee Palace on November 23 2010, Sarkozy and Platini discussed Qatar’s possible investment in French football at Paris Saint-Germain, among other topics.]


Platini: I said to everybody. It’s me who said to everybody that I had a dinner. I understand that Mr Sarkozy he wants that I vote, but he never asked me to vote for him.


Samuel: There is a link between France and Qatar, a commercial link, that is very strong. You say you vote for Qatar, can you understand why people draw conclusions?


Platini: I understand but people must understand that I am free to decide for my vote – and you can understand that Sarkozy never asked me to vote. But I understand by the lunch that we had that it would be nice if I supported that, but I vote for what I want. I have no link with Nicolas, I have no link with the France, I don’t take Airbus myself , I have no problems with nothing. I am only for the development of football in the world when I vote. And I said to everybody what I vote.


Samuel: Sepp Blatter said that he thought that if the World Cup moved to the winter, in Qatar, that there could be a legal claim by Australia, South Korea, Japan and America, to re-open the bidding process because this wasn’t the World Cup that was voted for. This is a different World Cup that has been passed. What do you think of that?


Platini: You have nothing to say to me, I am not the boss of that. I think it is better to play in the winter. Then FIFA and Qatar will decide when they want to play. I think it’s good for you, for me, for the people, for the players, for the fans, for the journalists, to go in winter. In summer, good luck in 60 degrees, or you can stay inside, I don’t know. But it’s better to go in the winter and it’s my wish that it will be played in winter. Then FIFA and Qatar will decide if it will be possible or not possible. It is a problem for FIFA.


Samuel: But if it moves to the winter, do you think the bidding process should be reopened?

Platini: The thing is, if the bidding process is reopened, Qatar will win another time. Why, if I vote for Qatar, why I have to change? I tell you why I still vote for Qatar, the same ideas of two years ago. It changes nothing. For me, changes nothing.


Samuel: OK, about Euro 2020 and the different venues –[the 2020 European Championship will be spread across the continent with no single host country, after UEFA received little interest in hosting, following Platini’s declaration for Turkey].


Platini: It’s for the birthday of the euro.


Samuel: Sorry?


Platini: It’s for the birthday of the euro.


Samuel: Because it’s been such a success.


Platini: I’m romantic.


Samuel: Yes, you’re just an old romantic, I know that Michel.


Platini: And it’s just a one shot. A one off.


Samuel: But would the best idea not be for the matches to be in places that don’t traditionally hold European Championship fixtures. So I’m thinking Hampden Park, in Scotland, rather than coming back to London and Wembley. Or the Millennium Stadium in Wales, rather than going to Paris say, or Rome? Would that not be a more fitting thing to do?


Platini: That is my priority but we will have the vote and the people will decide for what they vote. But I totally agree with you. That’s my priority, too.


Samuel: So you would rather have it in cities that have never hosted European Championship fixtures?


Platini: Of course. That is my priority because it is difficult for, I think, 45 countries to organise a Euro with 10 stadiums, it’s not easy. Spain can do that, England can do that, Italy, France can do that, Germany. If we want, I think, it is a good idea, to put at least some matches in a nice country for the Euro. That will be my priority – if I vote.


Samuel: How do you keep the costs down for the supporters? The cost of travel, the cost of hotels?


Platini: It will be less expensive than to go to Ukraine in 2012.


Samuel: Well, a lot of things would. Space travel would be less expensive than Ukraine in 2012.


Platini: When we chose the cities, I think it will be not only a question of stadium, it will be a question of hospitality and transport. International transport. I think that you can have all this, with very good facilities for the fans to go to see the game. A lot of facilities.


Samuel: But what can UEFA do to help that?


Platini: We are working on it.


Samuel: In terms of what?


Platini: We are working on forbidding more than two hours on the plane in the same group. We are working with the European Commission how we can work with all the people, all the tourists who want a visa, all these things we are working on. We are beginning the process to organise a beautiful 2020 with the help of the politicians. For the moment we are launching the bidding in April and the decision will be in September or next year. But at the same time we are working with the politicians for the facilities of the people.


Samuel: You have mentioned Ukraine a couple of times, but some of the problems, UEFA brought on itself in Ukraine. Donetsk for instance. It’s a great stadium, a beautiful stadium, I love the Donetsk stadium. But the city didn’t have the hotel facilities and it was UEFA who broadened out the area to include, I think it was about 80 miles, about 120 kilometres –


Farrelly: You’re talking about the facilities for accommodation –


Samuel: Yes. [European Championship host venues are supposed to have a specific number of hotel beds available. To make Donetsk fit the criteria, UEFA stretched its boundaries by as much as 80 miles.]


Platini: Sorry but I didn’t vote for Poland and Ukraine. I had to fight, I had to work five years for Poland and Ukraine and in the end it was not so bad. But respect the fact that to go from Kharkiv to Kiev is very complicated and very expensive. It is better to go from Glasgow to Paris or London to Berlin it cost nothing, it would be €50 by plane. It means that things will be very nice for the fans. Yes I think so. Very nice. But now my influence is to try to have cities that never received, countries that never received, receive the Euro. That will be nice. With one stadium they can receive the Euro otherwise you have to have eight stadium to receive the Euro and in many, many countries it’s not possible.


Samuel: I want to ask you about the six officials for Champions League matches. It would seem to me that the problems with refereeing mistakes is human error.


Platini: And it was the same with three.


Samuel: Exactly. So if the problem is human error, how can putting more humans on the job help?


Platini: What do you want to do?


Samuel: Stick with what we had. Referee and two linesmen. Plus goal line technology.


Platini: I think if there are four more eyes, it is better to see. I will tell you what I think about the referee. I think three referees they don’t see everything. In history it is not a problem because there is no TV. The referee was the boss, he do what he wants. And because of that we never challenge the referee. With the TV they show all the mistakes of the referee. It was time to do something. It’s a matter of FIFA but I try to put two additional referees to help the referee to make decisions in the 18 metres, in the penalty area, to see if the goal is over the line or not over the line. And the idea? It works. In the Champions League, it works. But we have a big problem. The big problem of offside. Offside is difficult. Very, very. The rest is the interpretation of the referees, if the referee thinks is penalty, is not penalty it is his own interpretation and for me, it works very well. Is better than in the past. FIFA decided to put the goal line technology with the help of the English FA. I was against. Because I am not against the goal line technology, I am against the beginning of the technology. Because if one day you put the goal line technology, then the offside technology, then the corner line technology, then the 18 metres technology, and you will lose. That’s why I was against the beginning of the technology. FIFA was fair, they asked the international board and they decided on the five referees, also goal line technology. OK let’s go, let’s go, and if it’s not working, we will test to have a better referee in the future. That’s good. I think we have to help the referee, how is a better way to we help the referee to take the decision? For me, the goal line technology costs €50m. I can’t put 50 million into technology all over Europe, it’s not possible. Because you have to put it in, you have to take it out, you have to put it in, you have to take it out and you have to bring the things into Donetsk because they don’t have the technology – 50 million. Fifty million! I want to put that into the development of the football, instead to rule on one goal every year or one goal every two year. That is my point of view. But let’s show what’s happened – I think we have to work on the communication between the referee. I ask, after the dramatic decision of Borussia Dortmund against Malaga [Malaga were denied progress to the Champions League semi-final by a blatantly offside late goal], because these are three international referees and they don’t see that he is offside on the line. I would like to know what has happened between them. I ask now to the competition committee of UEFA, I want to record what’s happened between them, as we have done in the Euro. And I want to talk to them to know who make mistake. Because it’s a small club, they do what they want, they protect themselves, they are always good, there are no banalities, I want to control that because it is not normal. Let’s go with the plan with the new decision by the international board that we will see in two years, three years, four years, if there is something better to do.


Samuel: Is part of the problem with the six officials that they must all come from the same country? You have a situation where you’re working with the sixth best referee. If Scotland have got a good referee, it’s not just enough that they have one, they have to have five others.


Platini: No no. I think we work on the language and not on the nationality. Some people like to speak to someone that is the same nationality. I think the best thing is to communicate with each other.


Samuel: I agree. But every Champions League match I have been to this season, they have all been from the same country.


Platini: They have all been from the same country? OK. We can discuss that with the refereeing committee, language is most important. But I tell you one thing, I am not sure that they communicate. Because I am not sure that the main referee wants to be helped by the additional referee. It’s easy to say shut up, I am the referee for 100 years. I don’t know what is their relationship. That is what I want to record what is the relation with them. We have not to choose five referee, we have to chose one referee and this referee, he makes his team.

Samuel: That would be my thought. (For the Champions League final on Saturday, there will be five Italians and the fourth official is from Slovenia. In the European Under 21 Championship, there will be a mixed teams of officials).


Platini: But it is the beginning of a process that we are working on, that is now accepted by the international board. But now we can work. Before FIFA were, ‘This is not good, neh neh neh neh.’ The referee communicates. FIFA cancels that. The officials are forbidden by FIFA to sign that it is a corner.


Farrelly: They can’t move their arms.


Platini: He stands like this. [Puts arms straight down by his side.] He can move his feet only. He can’t do nothing because he is forbidden by FIFA.

Farrelly: That’s why they are always like this. [Puts arms straight down by his side.] They are not allowed to use their hands.


Samuel: Why?


Platini: I don’t know why. Fair question. I asked the question. It was forbidden. Fans say, look at these people, they are not moving, they are doing nothing, why are they here? The two additional, they can’t do that, they can’t do that, they can’t do nothing. They cannot communicate because they have not got the permit of FIFA to say something. Let’s hope now that it is accepted by UEFA that we have a way of working with five referees, let’s hope it will be better for referees.


Samuel: That seems ridiculous.


Platini: It is. That is. I can’t do things that I want. If you think I can, it isn’t true.


Samuel: But you see my point Michel, that if they all come from the same country, your decision making process is as strong as the sixth best referee in Scotland – who might not be up to making a major decision in the San Siro Stadium with 80,000 Milanese screaming down his –


Platini: But the referees you know they have their own world, they decide what they want and sometimes we have to take time to discuss with the refereeing committee, it’s not easy.


Samuel: And would you be open to the referee receiving information from the fourth official, the guy that’s in the tunnel? The guy that might have seen a video replay.


Platini: Normally, the video is forbidden. It is forbidden because it caused many problems at the Euros because the coaches go to see, the players, they go to see, then they say no, no, it’s a big problem. That was forbidden by the World Cup so it’s forbidden.


Samuel: AC Milan have got 32 players on loan at the moment. Chelsea have got 26 players on loan, Watford have 14 players – they have nine players just from Udinese. As President of UEFA, what can you do about that?


Platini: We can always open the floor with the statute committee, with the leagues, the players and the unions of players of clubs to discuss the number of players in the team, the number of loans that they can have. We can always open a discussion with that.


Samuel: But what are your feelings on the loan system?


Platini: I never think about that. But what can create a problem for me is that if you are a player in the same competition, that is a big problem of ethic. The rest, the loan of players in another competition. It is not a big problem. Could be a problem, we have to think about it. But if is in the same competition it could create me a problem that a team plays against you and you are the owner of this player. That is not right.We are speaking now to forbid the transfer of the player during the season and it’s not easy with the union of the player, it’s not easy with the clubs, it’s not easy. But actually in the same competition. It means that I don’t want that player for Arsenal to score a goal against Tottenham on the first day and then on the second day he scores for Tottenham against Arsenal. Is it is not ethic, it’s not good. I fight for that, but you know, for long, long, long time there was no rules in football –


Samuel: No, it was like the wild west.


Platini: And it was always stupid Platini who would come with the rules. It’s not just to put rules, it’s football logic rules, ethic rules. Because you know football brings a lot of money. And from the moment there is lot of money, there is lot of people, new people, they come to take the money. That is dangerous because these people they want to steal to make more money. They want to change everything to do everything for money. That is dangerous.


Samuel: Looking at the project at Manchester City, for instance, do you think that is dangerous or do you think it is a positive thing for football?


Platini: I spoke with the people of Manchester City, they are doing big efforts – big efforts for the financial fair play, they are doing big efforts on that.


Samuel: Have you seen what they have done in the surrounding area?


Platini: It’s nice, it’s OK, it’s good. We are looking towards the clubs and they are doing big efforts, I know they are doing big efforts. Manchester City or Chelsea in these last two years are not the same as back in the past, because of the new regulations. It means it is not so negative.


Samuel: Last question. Will you run for president of FIFA?


Platini: I don’t know. Every journalist I meet is asking me that question. I don’t know, it’s in two years, I don’t know – when I will take a decision I will say. You are a journalist from a long time but I have been answering questions for a long time. OK, it was a pleasure. I know you are not very soft with the UEFA president -


Samuel: No, I’m not, but I still respect the fact that you answered the questions –


Platini: I have no problem on that, I will tell you why. Because is nice that you look at what or why I do or what I say. I say to the journalists you can write what you want, can say I am stupid and don’t know nothing, but at least you know why I do that. That is good. Then there is no problem.


Samuel: Michel, I actually agree with financial fair play. I just don’t necessarily agree with your model of it. One thing I did forget to ask, if the wages are so important, why not link it to the wages as opposed to the transfers? Why not have a system whereby you had to be able to cover your wage bill, it didn’t matter what the owner spent on transfers, because that’s his own money. But obviously the problem is that if the owner suddenly walks away he leaves the club with a massive bill. This is the whole issue. So why not link financial fair play to the wage bill rather than to the transfers?


Platini: Hmm. We’d have to go into more detail in terms of that. We are working to find the good regulation for the financial fair play and I think that there will be a discussion and proposal to the Congress in Dubrovnik and all the national associations, to know what should be implemented for the financial fair play – finally.


Samuel: So it’s not totally rigid?


Platini: No, no, for the moment, we begin next year – the decision and it’s a matter for discussion. The administration have to find the good system – but it’s not finished this procedure because it is beginning in next year.


Farrelly: Next season. I think the important part regarding the transfers is that they are part of the club’s balance sheet. It’s like anything else, the price of floodlights, the price of the stadium, it’s part of the balance sheet, that’s why it’s being included. These are figures that are in the public domain. We are not making up the figures.


Samuel: I realise that.


Platini: Don’t forget one thing, it is the beginning of something. It’s not the end, it is the beginning and we can do all things. We can do many things.